Wondering about relay issues

[aquawilly54]

Hi guys,
  I'm looking for similar issues here that I have with relays in conjunction with the Prop 1.  The prop 1 does it's job just fine, but what I'm finding is that after a few cycles my relays are sticking.  I've had this issue in the past, and can't come up with a good fix. 

The relays I'm using are Radio Shack 275-0218, 12vdc (coil) activated by the prop 1, with 120vac contacts and 100mA, 5vdc minimum load.  These relays are programed to all come on at the same time.  They work well for the first two or three run thrus, but then on the next trigger they stick, so I have to go in and turn off power, then switch it back on. 

The three relays operate the following three items:

• Small AC motor (amp draw unknown)
  Mini Strobe Light
  Fright Props air solenoid
  

The obvious fix would be to stagger the activation times on the relays, but then I lose the desired effect of the prop.

Has anybody else here experienced this, or have a fix for it??

Steve

[JonnyMac]

You might try staggering by a short time, say 25ms. This would probably not be noticeable by humans, but may give the power supply enough time to recover from each relay. Remember that the rating on a relay is its holding current, not the surge current on activation which is always much higher.

[aquawilly54]

Johnny Mac,
  That sounds like a good possibility, after looking at the program and time delays in the tutorial I just don't see how to do it.  I can write in pauses, but I know that's not what we're talking about.  If I could get your programing help once more, it would really be appreciated.

I promise you this:  Everything you are showing me gets logged in the learning file.

I also thought about using a 24vdc power supply; thinking maybe a little extra oomph might help, but I can't seem to find one locally.  I would assume the amps would have to be between 750mA - 1amp, correct? 

Steve

' =========================================================================
'
'   File...... Jack in the Box.bs1
'   Purpose... Movement, lights and sound
'   Author.... Steve ( with assist from JonnyMac! )
'   E-mail.... aquawilly54@yahoo.com
'   Started...
'   Updated... 14 OCT 2014
'
'   {$STAMP BS1}
'   {$PBASIC 1.0}
'
' =========================================================================


' -----[ Program Description ]---------------------------------------------


' -----[ Revision History ]------------------------------------------------


' -----[ I/O Definitions ]-------------------------------------------------

SYMBOL  Sio            = 7                     ' SETUP = UP; no ULN  (AP-16+)
SYMBOL  Trigger        = PIN6                  ' SETUP = DN  (PIR)

SYMBOL  Cylinder       = PIN2                  ' use OUT2/V+
SYMBOL  Lights         = PIN1                  ' use OUT1/V+
SYMBOL  Motor          = PIN0                  ' use OUT0/V+


' -----[ Constants ]-------------------------------------------------------

SYMBOL  Yes            = 1
SYMBOL  No             = 0

SYMBOL  TrOn           = 1                     ' active-high trigger
SYMBOL  TrOff          = 0

SYMBOL  IsOn           = 1                     ' active-high I/O
SYMBOL  IsOff          = 0

SYMBOL  Baud           = OT2400


' -----[ Variables ]-------------------------------------------------------

SYMBOL  status         = B0                    ' AP-16+ status byte
SYMBOL   playing       =  BIT7                 ' 1 when playing

SYMBOL  timer          = B2                    ' for debounce loop


' -----[ Initialization ]--------------------------------------------------

Power_Up:
  PAUSE 3000                                   ' let AP-16+ initialize

Reset:
  PINS = %00000001                             ' motor on, others off
  DIRS = %00111111                             ' P5..P0 are outputs

  SEROUT SIO, Baud, ("!AP16", %00, "PW", "AMBIENT", 13, 0)

  PAUSE 20000                                  ' PIR warm-up/delay


' -----[ Program Code ]----------------------------------------------------

Main:
  timer = 0                                     ' reset timer

Check_Trigger:
  PAUSE 5                                       ' loop pad
  timer = timer + 5 * Trigger                   ' update timer
  IF timer < 100 THEN Check_Trigger             ' wait for 0.1 sec input

  Motor = IsOff
  Lights = IsOn
  Cylinder = IsOn

  SEROUT Sio, Baud, ("!AP16", %00, "PS", 0, 1)  ' Play SFX00 1 time

Audio_Wait:
  PAUSE 100
  SEROUT Sio, Baud, ("!AP16", %00, "G")
  SERIN  Sio, Baud, status
  IF playing = Yes THEN Audio_Wait

  GOTO Reset

[JonnyMac]

Stehve (there's no h in my name, either):

"Oomph" is not about volts, it's about amps -- you might try a different power supply with the same voltage with double the amps of your current device.

Here's an update with delays to help mitigate possible power-supply sagging.

' =========================================================================
'
'   File...... Jack in the Box.bs1
'   Purpose... Movement, lights and sound
'   Author.... Steve ( with assist from JonnyMac! )
'   E-mail.... aquawilly54@yahoo.com
'   Started...
'   Updated... 24 OCT 2014
'
'   {$STAMP BS1}
'   {$PBASIC 1.0}
'
' =========================================================================


' -----[ Program Description ]---------------------------------------------


' -----[ Revision History ]------------------------------------------------


' -----[ I/O Definitions ]-------------------------------------------------

SYMBOL  Sio            = 7                     ' SETUP = UP; no ULN  (AP-16+)
SYMBOL  Trigger        = PIN6                  ' SETUP = DN  (PIR)

SYMBOL  Cylinder       = PIN2                  ' use OUT2/V+
SYMBOL  Lights         = PIN1                  ' use OUT1/V+
SYMBOL  Motor          = PIN0                  ' use OUT0/V+


' -----[ Constants ]-------------------------------------------------------

SYMBOL  Yes            = 1
SYMBOL  No             = 0

SYMBOL  TrOn           = 1                     ' active-high trigger
SYMBOL  TrOff          = 0

SYMBOL  IsOn           = 1                     ' active-high I/O
SYMBOL  IsOff          = 0

SYMBOL  Baud           = OT2400


' -----[ Variables ]-------------------------------------------------------

SYMBOL  status         = B0                    ' AP-16+ status byte
SYMBOL   playing       =  BIT7                 ' 1 when playing

SYMBOL  timer          = B2                    ' for debounce loop


' -----[ Initialization ]--------------------------------------------------

Power_Up:
  PAUSE 3000                                   ' let AP-16+ initialize

Reset:
  PINS = %00000000                             ' all off
  DIRS = %00111111                             ' P5..P0 are outputs

  SEROUT SIO, Baud, ("!AP16", %00, "PW", "AMBIENT", 13, 0)
  PAUSE 25
  Motor = IsOn

  PAUSE 20000                                  ' PIR warm-up/delay


' -----[ Program Code ]----------------------------------------------------

Main:
  timer = 0                                     ' reset timer

Check_Trigger:
  PAUSE 5                                       ' loop pad
  timer = timer + 5 * Trigger                   ' update timer
  IF timer < 100 THEN Check_Trigger             ' wait for 0.1 sec input

  SEROUT Sio, Baud, ("!AP16", %00, "PS", 0, 1)  ' Play SFX00 1 time

  Motor = IsOff
  PAUSE 25

  Lights = IsOn
  PAUSE 25

  Cylinder = IsOn

Audio_Wait:
  PAUSE 100
  SEROUT Sio, Baud, ("!AP16", %00, "G")
  SERIN  Sio, Baud, status
  IF playing = Yes THEN Audio_Wait

  GOTO Reset

[aquawilly54]

Ha!  "H" issue logged in.  ;D

The time stagger should have been a no brainer for me.  I feel silly now, but thank you for the assist.  I also forgot that the amperage is the boost, so yes, I'm off to find a 2 amp supply.

Thanks again Jonny Mac.
Steve

[aquawilly54]

Jonny Mac,
  Just an update here.  I finally received my new power supply this evening.  There was nothing available here locally, so I had to order one and pay the big shipping bucks.  I ended up getting a 12v 2500mA adapter with the correct 2.1 jack.  I just got done running the prop through 5 times and it seems to work well.  Thanks for setting me straight on my volt/amps backwardness.  Now a question:

What amperage is too much to run through the prop 1.  Is it safe with 2.5 amps, considering a 1 amp is what's available through EFX TEK?  I need my mind put at ease.
Thanks much.
Steve

[JonnyMac]

Power supplies cannot push their rated load through a device, the device has to demand the current. In your early case, I think the circuit was demanding more current than the supply could provide, hence it browned-out. I routinely connect 5A and 10A supplies to our controllers, knowing full well I'm never going to demand that much.

[aquawilly54]

Well, Halloween is done and I'll call it a success, but I still had relay issues.  Everything worked well for a few cycles, but then they stuck again.  I shut it down and swapped In a 12v 5amp power supply I forgot was packed away, but apparently it was too little too late. 

Jonny Mac, 
  What type of relay do you recommend  for use with the prop 1?  As stated earlier; I've been using general purpose (12v coil / 120v 10amp) Radio Shack relays, so maybe it's time to upgrade.  I'm pretty sure the 10amp rating is a maximum, not a minimum.  I'd like to start using the prop 1 for more than just Halloween, but want to make sure I start off right. 
Steve

[JackMan]

I use these with no issues at all. I also use several other smaller types and have never had any "stick".
http://www.mdfly.com/products/12v-10a-spdt-relay.html