Prop 1 first program

[gjnorth]

Thanks so much. I appreciate all your expertise!

[JackMan]

BTW, meant to ask what you are powering the Prop-1 with? (volts, amps)

[gjnorth]

12 V 1 amp transformer bought from EFX-TEK when I purchased prop 1. I figured initially that it would have enough power to work the solenoid.

[JackMan]

Yeah, you should be fine in that respect, it's just that you need to route the power to the solenoid through a relay.

[gjnorth]

Ok I got a 12 VDC relay. From what I can decipher from the wiring diagram and what I found on-line (I did search the forum and couldn't find an answer) this is how I should wire this up:

V+ coming out of the Prop-1 should go to pin 30 on the relay, out0 wire from the Prop1 should go to pin 86 on the relay.
Then a wire from pin 87 on the relay should go to my positive lead on the solenoid, and a wire out of pin 85 on the relay should go to the negative lead on my solenoid.

Am I close? I wanted someone to verify before I try it out cause I would hate to fry my board!!

[JonnyMac]

Another thing to remember is that solenoids have an initial surge current called inrush, and this can sometimes have a negative effect on a system that can't deal with it.

We have an Amigo called the HC-2 which is for DC switching -- it handle a lot of current; I used it in a project with a car headlight (takes about 3A). Of course, I had a really big power supply, too.

[JackMan]

Ok I got a 12 VDC relay. From what I can decipher from the wiring diagram and what I found on-line (I did search the forum and couldn't find an answer) this is how I should wire this up:

V+ coming out of the Prop-1 should go to pin 30 on the relay, out0 wire from the Prop1 should go to pin 86 on the relay.
Then a wire from pin 87 on the relay should go to my positive lead on the solenoid, and a wire out of pin 85 on the relay should go to the negative lead on my solenoid.

Am I close? I wanted someone to verify before I try it out cause I would hate to fry my board!!

I don't know what the pinouts are on your relay but what you have outlined is incorrect. If the relay you have has 4 possible connections, then it is a SPST relay which is fine. Two of the connections are the relay coil, the other two connections are open dry contacts. The coil connections are what connect to the Prop-1 V+ and OUT0. The open contacts of the relay act as switch to turn the solenoid on. 12v positive goes to one of the open contacts, the other open contact goes to the solenoid. Negative 12v goes directly to the solenoid. When the relay gets energized via the Prop-1, it closes the dry contacts and turns on the solenoid. The purpose of all of this is to route the current needed to power the solenoid thru the relay and not the Prop-1. You also have to be careful that the relay you have doesn't draw too much current. I don't know what you have but just because it's 12v doesn't mean it will be suitable for this. A relay like the the ones in the ebay link are what you want. Hopefully this makes sense to you.

[gjnorth]

I understand now. I was under the impression that you didn't need a 12 v source when going through the relay. I see what you are saying that the relay just switches the 12 v source on and off to the solenoid while protecting it from going back into the Prop-1 circuitry. I had originally planned on running the solenoid for the pneumatic cylinder and the solenoid for the air cannon strait off the Prop 1 board however, the solenoid on the air cannon is also fairly large and I think I will end up with the same situation when trying to trigger that. I think maybe the best solution for the prop is maybe what JonnyMac suggested with the HC-2 board. That way I can control both solenoids and not have to worry about it.

In regards to a power supply for the HC-2 board, how many amps would you all suggest to have enough power to run the two solenoids?

[JonnyMac]

Always double your holding current. If each solenoid needs about 1/2A then you should have a 2A supply -- at a minimum. More is better.

[gjnorth]

Just an update: I received the HC-2 board on Friday and installed it using a 12v 2 amp power supply. I used the HC-2 board to control 2 solenoid valves, 1 operating the pneumatic cylinder and one operating the air cannon.  I ended up with the same problem. So at that point I unplugged all of the output cables from the I/O pin header except for the PIR on #6 and and the air cannon coming out of I/O pin 5. I triggered the Prop 1 and the air cannon fired appropriately. I proceeded to add one I/O cable at a time and everything worked until I got down to I/O pin # 1 which runs one of the flash crackers. I unplugged pin #1 and it was back to working properly. I then plugged in I/O pin #0 (which is the pneumatic cylinder and everything worked properly. I then tried switching between the two different flash crackers to see if the problem was specific to one. It seemed to only malfunction when I used one specific flash cracker. I switched positions of the flash crackers on the SSR-2 boards to make sure it was not a problem with one channel on the board and it was not. I also tried switching position of the flash cracker on the Prop-1 to make sure it was not a problem with 1 channel on the Prop-1 board and it was not. So I concluded that the one flash cracker has a problem internally or the board is having a problem working two flash crackers simultaneously. So I disconnected the offending flash cracker and everything was working perfectly.......however, last night I went out and triggered the prop in the configuration that it was working previously and now, even with a single flash cracker it back to malfunctioning.??
I'm not sure where to go from here? One thought is if the flash crackers are drawing more than the 4 amps that the SSR-2 is rated for. Fright props says this about the flash cracker:" Each FLASH! Cracker spikes at a maximum current draw of 2amps and then drops to 0amps as the energy is discharged. This cycle repeats very rapidly as the FLASH! Cracker is running."  However on the flash cracker itself it says: voltage: 120v/60 Hz  Current: 6A.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks

[JonnyMac]

Insufficient power is always a problem. I have lost count of the number of times I've said to a client, "I told you so...." In one shop now, no matter the project, they order 12V, 25A power supplies. We don't have any more problems with their projects.

Can you provide a diagram of your connections? Sometimes a visual is more helpful than a text description.

[livinlowe]

I find it odd that the website says 2 amps and the device says 6 amps

[gjnorth]

               --------------
12 V       -                    7----- empty
1 a          -                   6-----PIR
power     -   Prop 1      5------air cannon-----------------
supply     -                  4-----strobe--ssr-2                     -
               -                  3-----fog-----ssr-2                      -
               -                  2----flash cracker----ssr-2          -
              -                   1----flash cracker----ssr-2          -
              -                   0----pneum cylinder------------hc-2
               --------------                                                  -
                                                                                      -
                                                                                      -
                                                                                      -
                                                                     12V 2a power supply

All outputs from the prop-1 are via wrb extension cables to either the SSR-2 or HC-2 boards.

[JonnyMac]

That's not what I meant -- what I'm looking for is a graphic representation of your entire prop setup; all devices and connections.