Using Vixen as a Prop Programmer

[JonnyMac]

It's one of those projects that's harder than it looks and, frankly, it's a little hard to justify [all the work it would take] at the moment with Prop-SX sales being as low as they are.  That said... KC and I have been talking and are working on a Prop-2 program generator that handles four servos and eight digital outputs (creates the tables automatically like the program I showed in another thread).  Once we've been through the process with the Prop-2, we're a step ahead.

Still, the SX version I originally had in mind is much more complicated.  It requires some user interface on the Prop-SX side and for Vixen to be able to "talk" to the Prop-SX so that the data can be dumped from Vixen into the Prop-SX's EEPROM (like the way the Stamp editor downloads a new program to the Prop-2's EEPROM).  This isn't trivial; please trust me on that. 

I'm sorry this has taken longer than we all hoped, and I'll hold my tongue with teases. 

[davisgraveyard]

Jon, while I admire your ambition and forward thinking maybe you're making things harder than it has to be at this stage.   Sure it would be great if it were all just point and click but a few extra steps or using more than one tool wouldn't be the end of the world.   If vixen outputed a text file that you had to paste into your program and then load with another tool that wouldn't be so bad.  It's not getting the final EPROM data statements into the controller that is the real problem its collecting the data.   That's really what vixen is.   Show control software is nothing more than a way to easily see your audio track and the data points that change and then giving you an interface to add/change the data points.   When doing a animated character the jaw movement is pretty simple this way.  You can just use the keyboard to tap away the mouth movement without seeing the real jaw move and then when you play back the data loaded in the controller test to see how well you did.  But trying to do the head turn,nod, and tilt movements as separate keyboard movements and then add all the data together and play back the show there is just too much back and forth between the code generation and controller playback to see how it works.   What would be nice is some sort of real-time interface to the servos with joystick interface to Vixen.  This really isn't a factor of the controller interface, more of a enhancement to Vixen in general.  If the interface existed then all your data points could be exported to a file that could be loaded into the SX or maybe run through a pre-compiler that converted the data into EPROM data statements and then pasted into a PBASIC program?

Just some thoughts.

Jeff

[JonnyMac]

Vixen 2.0 -- which I haven't looked at -- is supposed to have joystick support, so that may be helpful.  In the end though, our customers are going to tend (I believe) to want something that is point-and-click when it comes to converting Vixen data to prop control code.   

[davisgraveyard]

Well, I'm a customer, and I'd rather have something that worked than nothing at all.  A kludge is bettern than nothing as long as it doesn't stay a kludge.

I'll check into 2.0's joystick support and find out what I can do?

[goober]

Hi Jon,
I went through all these steps (a few times) and after spending about 4 hours with Vixen getting the prop-1 sequence and sequence generator add-ins installed. Now I'm getting a "template file is missing" error when I click on the generator. I'm stuck. I'd love to learn this, it seems a little faster then manually doing it. What does the error mean? Do I need my prop-1 connected? If so then I'll need to wait for the  BS1 Serial Adapter, I forgot to get one when you were here.

[JonnyMac]

For Prop-1 programming with Vixen you need to have these files in you Vixen >> Addins folder:

* Prop1SeqGen.dll
* prop-1_sequencer_main.txt
* prop-1_sequencer_fill.txt

Unzip the sequences examples to your Vixen >> Sequences folder.

[avgjoefriday]

Just a quick note for others. If you download the latest Vixen 2.1.zip file from www.vixenlights.com and try to use the Prop1 or Prop2 Sequence Generator addin, it will tell you "Template File is missing".  This is because the files
prop-1_sequencer_main.txt
prop-1_sequencer_fill.txt
prop-2_sequencer_main.txt
prop-2_sequencer_fill.txt
were not included in the distribution (all of the other add-ins and outputs are included in the one zip file). 
The text files in Jon's original zip appear to work fine if you place them in the vixen\addin directory.

[calloween]

How do you make a circuit to test the zig-zag for the prop-1?

[JonnyMac]

Use the Prop-1 Trainer -- if you don't have one, download the docs and build per the schematic inside.

[calloween]

Use the Prop-1 Trainer -- if you don't have one, download the docs and build per the schematic inside.

How would you set up a button or pir to trigger it.

[JonnyMac]

If you're using Vixen to create/export your program sequence you'll find it in the export dialog.  You want to select Active-High trigger.

[jukingeo]

Hello All,

While I have been an avid user of Vixen since last Christmas, this is the first year I am going to try something for Halloween using Vixen. 

I am basically doing your typical "Singing Pumpkins" routine and having lighted pumpkins trigger to an audio track.  I was going to originally do this via a computer, but I am already using a computer for another task this Halloween.   After poking around here at the ever so useful EFX-TEK forums I see that you can use Vixen to program a Prop-1/2 controller.

Upon reading this thread I DO see there are audio options for using Vixen with the Prop-1/2.   Would this mean that if I used an AP-8 or AP16+ with my Prop-1 or 2, I would be able to sync the audio with light trigger?   Or is the audio option just a start point and during the course of the program running, it would indeed drift out of sync?

If the audio does sync up, I am curious as to how that is done...furthermore the question of storage space on the Prop-1 & 2 comes to mind especially since I am intending on programming a 10minute sequence.   I would figure the Prop-1 is out of the question, BUT I do also own a Prop-2 which I bought a couple years ago.

If this is possible it would most certainly free up a computer on my part and it would allow me freedom in setting up the singing pumpkins just about anywhere in the yard.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Thank You,

Geo

[JonnyMac]

You show length is dependent on resolution -- 10minutes may be too much unless you use a very low resolution (e.g. > 250ms) period.  Most of us do not use this regularly so you're going to have to work empirically.  Vixen will tell you if the show length is too long to fit into the Prop-2.

Do not use the AP-8+ option, use the pulse start output.  Then connect V+ and OUT15 to the 12-24 VDC input of the AP-16+.

Okay... if you do use the AP-8 option you can manually edit the code to change the command string transmitted by SEROUT.

[jukingeo]

You show length is dependent on resolution -- 10minutes may be too much unless you use a very low resolution (e.g. > 250ms) period.  Most of us do not use this regularly so you're going to have to work empirically.  Vixen will tell you if the show length is too long to fit into the Prop-2.

Do not use the AP-8+ option, use the pulse start output.  Then connect V+ and OUT15 to the 12-24 VDC input of the AP-16+.

Okay... if you do use the AP-8 option you can manually edit the code to change the command string transmitted by SEROUT.

The AP-8's memory would be far to short to be considered for a project like this, but having talked about the much larger memory capacity of the AP-16+...now we are cookin' with gas!   But the main thing is will the audio sync up with the sequenced pattern.   Within Vixen this is a given because the source is the same computer, same program, and same file.  Externally via the Prop-2 and AP-16+ things are different.   So I am curious if the Prop-2/AP-16+ combo would still stay in sync.  Would that be possible or is the audio capability just a trigger and that it is possible that the audio and sequence would drift?

Thanx,

Geo

[JonnyMac]

Stay in sync?  Yes, but to what resolution?  Hard to say.  If you're going to acquire an AP-16+ and already have a Prop-2 (I think you do) then you can do some experiments.  Remember, the Prop-2 is running a single-threaded, interpreted language so timing will never be as precise as say using an SX or Propeller chip.

Again, this is going to be a case-by-case experiment.  Note that we only provided the Vixen tool as a "step up" for folks that had never used a programmable controller before.  Since Vixen does produce a .BS2 file you could always go into the code and fine-tune the timing constant if you find drift in the project.